Jeff Mangum: You know, you struggle and cry and moan and thrash around and beat your head against the wall.
Karl Lagerfeld: And now I cannot cross the street. I cannot go anywhere.
Mangum: I picked up the sea turtle and put it in my hand and it turned into a butterfly. And then it turned into a black spider.
Lagerfeld: But I was not living that kind of life; I was not taking drugs and all that.
Mangum: And I felt like Eastern thought really spoke to me.
Lagerfeld: It would be a nightmare not to daydream.
Mangum: It's like your brain is a drain with a bunch of words and images dropping into it, swirling around.
Lagerfeld: To brainwash my own head and to write letters.
Mangum: Even our concepts about romantic love, I think, are destructive; treating people as property is destructive; being jealous of other people is destructive.
Lagerfeld: I don’t like that people butcher animals, but I don’t like them to butcher humans either, which is apparently very popular in the world.
Mangum: So in France and Spain I was recording a lot of things like bells, animals, children, parades and protests.
Lagerfeld: I have bodyguards. So what do you want me to think about it?
Mangum: Want to hear some of it?
Lagerfeld: Beyond horrible.
Mangum: A lot of people are.
Lagerfeld: It was in the early days after the Communists—maybe a week after—and she wore a yellow sweater that was kind of see-through. She had huge tits and a huge black bra, and she said to me, “It’s impolite; remove your glasses.” I said, “Do I ask you to remove your bra?”
Mangum: So often it's all about the frame that you put something in for people.
Lagerfeld: I’m not sure I want to be charmed.